Curse

Ka Tet · Jul 25, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

sweet addition to my thread, even ghostly hero has gotten godlier, i had vicious attack and spear lightning D-shotted tonight, on the bright side im getting an Ai implant, so i'll be able to compete in todays high paced world of NPCs

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 25, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

sweet addition to my thread, even ghostly hero has gotten godlier, i had vicious attack and spear lightning D-shotted tonight, on the bright side im getting an Ai implant, so i'll be able to compete in todays high paced world of NPCs

I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

urania · Jul 25, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

develop your talent

HA is the wrong place to be at if one's trying to achieve that.

go gvg or TA

now for some weaknesses of the AI...can they preveil? use stances when needed? make full use of chanelling? prekite? kite when spiked? use the map to their advantage (like hiding behind walls)? hide energy? call hexes? use hex breaker correctly? function correctly when dazed/migrained?

Just a few questions or better to say, examples, which AI fails to execute (without interference of a real player).

whispering warlock · Jul 25, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

my issue is that they are given overpowered ai to accompany them when they use certain heros. THIS IS THE PROBLEM! I REPEAT THIS IS THE PROBLEM!

imo its A problem,
my biggest problem with hero's is that i want to play vs humans,
not bots,
even if the bots were crappy i still would want them banned from pvp.
i dont get any satisfaction beating a heroway team,
and since thats what youre doin 90% of the time,
ha is finally starting to bore me.
we decided to start gvg more as a guild,
and what do we meet......yeah you guessed it.
i do agree with you, ai is also a big problem
i look on observer and see reno having huge problems with a 1000+ guild running heroway,
i see battlegods losing to a 1000+ heroway. this is just wrong...

anet really better act soon

moko · Jul 25, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

can they preveil?

yes. it's called microing.

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use stances when needed?

yes, you don't even need to micro them for most on that part.

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make full use of chanelling?

no but most humans are too stupid for that also.

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prekite?

who needs to prekite when the target attacking you is hexed to oblivion before it reaches you?

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kite when spiked?

last time i looked most spikes either included a kd or could not be kited because they're caster spikes?

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use the map to their advantage (like hiding behind walls)?

no, but you can flag them.

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hide energy? call hexes?

you can equip weapons for them - you can call for them.

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use hex breaker correctly?

see stances. and besides, most humans can't do that either.

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function correctly when dazed/migrained?

aka "PLX DRAW ME OR CONVERT ME QUICK IM ABOUT TO FAIL LOLOL?"

Quote:

Just a few questions or better to say, examples, which AI fails to execute (without interference of a real player).

microing is a very important part of the AI; it's like saying humans ain't allowed to use their brain. you use what you're able to use and get the best out of it, it's that simple.

now, clearly i'm talking about heroes only, but who cares about hench when all of their bars fail from the start anyways?

urania · Jul 25, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

yes. it's called microing.

yes, you don't even need to micro them for most on that part.

no but most humans are too stupid for that also.

who needs to prekite when the target attacking you is hexed to oblivion before it reaches you?

last time i looked most spikes either included a kd or could not be kited because they're caster spikes?

no, but you can flag them.

you can equip weapons for them - you can call for them.

see stances. and besides, most humans can't do that either.

aka "PLX DRAW ME OR CONVERT ME QUICK IM ABOUT TO FAIL LOLOL?"

microing is a very important part of the AI; it's like saying humans ain't allowed to use their brain. you use what you're able to use and get the best out of it, it's that simple.

now, clearly i'm talking about heroes only, but who cares about hench when all of their bars fail from the start anyways?

so..can beginners micro AI? very unlikely, so its more or less the "experienced" players that are the main source of trouble, i guess.

as for preveil, its easy at start, but once in the heat of battle it will no longer be that easy to click on u and on veil again (with veil being disabled in order for them to miantain it at all, ofc).

can they rly use hex breaker/disciplined stance/dark escape correctly? afaik, they more like...spam it whenever they feel like it (I had such case with dark escape on tahlkora once.)

what i meant with functioning correctly when dazed/migrained (especially dazed) is that they spam spells on recharge and get them all interrupted and by doing so use all of their energy.

anyway, in other words, heroes fail at most of the things, apart from the reflex stuff like interrupts, if one doesnt master microing, yay.

Despozblehero · Jul 25, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Heroway is for scrubs... If you run it youre a scrub... If you split hairs about defending it or saying its not imbalanced, yup you guessed it, youre a scrub... Its a mindless, skilless, Build. If i could use any hero with any (decent) setup then ok youd have a point, all youd see is a bunch of zergway Goren's and Koss's with General Morgan im sure... but heros fail... sure they can be beaten but i dont want to fight heros id go play that epic fail HB for that...

Ka Tet · Jul 25, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

the discussion here isnt about heros in general, its about certain heros using certain skill sets, last i checked a n/rt wouldnt be able to use channeling, hexbreaker, veil or stances under any circumstances, barring hax of course, as far as kiting from spikes, im not so sure on the melee end b/c i primarily play midline paragon or midline caster, but id assume the answer to be yes they kite from melee, as far as dodging ranged attacks - yes they dodge, and quite effectively, in regards to hiding energy the necros have no need to, and the elementalists seem to use fire attune appropriately

and i believe that when you get down to it superior ai is the issue, if the ai didnt function so well on the builds it functions well on, you wouldnt see heros on every map, its an exploit and as such its being taken advantage of on a grand scale, if the ai were at the level it had once been - heros would once again be relegated to emergency replacements when absolutely no other option was available - which would mean youd fight heros once a month if that often

whispering warlock · Jul 26, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitty_sayonara

Why dont u make heroes ascent for only HUMANS? I wont be the only one who thinks HEROES are for PVE not for PVP.

If u want to keep heroes for heroes ascent pls write at least 1 reasonable message.

this was the opening post,
so i would say it is about hero's in general in pvp,
not specially about the skillsets

i do admit it is imba
and it would be a good step to nerf it,
but imo they should be banned from HA altogether (even if they sucked)
wich i believe is also the hope of pitty, who started this thread

God Apprentice · Jul 26, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

In the Sardelac section there was a thread along similar lines to this. What disgusted me about that thread was the comment made about "making more rank elitism and taking away Heroes will make it harder to find groups". Some of these people who have come up during this time in HA seem to be lazy, and cry about not being ranked (though the crying part has always been around). How hard is it to not cry about rank. I made groups when I had no rank. That's why I fail to see how it would be hard to make groups. Any opinions?

bungusmaximus · Jul 26, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

In the Sardelac section there was a thread along similar lines to this. What disgusted me about that thread was the comment made about "making more rank elitism and taking away Heroes will make it harder to find groups". Some of these people who have come up during this time in HA seem to be lazy, and cry about not being ranked (though the crying part has always been around). How hard is it to not cry about rank. I made groups when I had no rank. That's why I fail to see how it would be hard to make groups. Any opinions?

Being r1 myself i'd say it isnt that hard to find a group. Even ranked people take noobs along, not everyone takes HA that seriously (I remember playing with people from NUKE with my pve toon). Making teams is also a good one, noone will ask the team leader to flash his/her rank. Just make sure you have TS/Vent though, else you will fail at finding teams.
The elitist whiners often tend to suck real bad, because they need an attitude to make up for their suckyness. I dont't get the fuss just like you.

Oh and, remove heros from all PvP plz.

Nights Death Dealer · Jul 26, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

In the Sardelac section there was a thread along similar lines to this. What disgusted me about that thread was the comment made about "making more rank elitism and taking away Heroes will make it harder to find groups". Some of these people who have come up during this time in HA seem to be lazy, and cry about not being ranked (though the crying part has always been around). How hard is it to not cry about rank. I made groups when I had no rank. That's why I fail to see how it would be hard to make groups. Any opinions?

Agreed, i made my own groups for ha, id rather spend 1 hr forming a full team so that if i saw people play well, i could friend list them and ask them to play next time....which...omg...means that forming a team is easier next time! giving up and forming a team with heroes makes you more anti social, so ofc you are never gonna find a team. Stop the vicious cycle and leave the heroes out and find real people.....noone can bite you through the computer so you dont have to worry about rabies.

Lorekeeper · Jul 26, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

i once posted the idea that all the problems with GW were forgotten about whenever a new chapter was released. Everyone was too excited about new skills, new storylines and new classes to remember what they had been whining about the previous week.

If my theory has some truth to it, we will all forget about heroway and the problem of kill count when GW:EN is released. I expect that people will stop running heroway and start playing with the new skills... being the innovative people that they are (yeh right lol).

once the sparkly shinyness of the new chapter settles down we will certainly have another set of imbalanced skills and skill combos to whine about ONTOP of the ones that already existed.

And we will also once again remember the issues with heroway and kill count since Anet havent indicated any planned solutions with the release of GW:EN. The only difference being Anet actually making money off people buying yet another chapter of the game and will probably have met the rest of their budget requirements to pump into development of GWII.

oh what an easy market the MMO market is.

gg everyone

stav lad · Jul 26, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

i think its getting past just being a joke, there is'ent a proper pvp arena now but a bunch of hero battles.
Anet dosent like the use of bots in game so why do they give us them.
Just kick em out off pvp and the game will be enjoyable again till then im off to play eve for a bit.

ksalanpang · Jul 27, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

just find your own build to anti heroway. There are many ways to counter the entire build with the right approach and strats. As a matter of fact it's not hard.

And yes, there's no official reply from anyone in Anet/GW about what's the future of HA, whether to take out the entire heroes lineup out of HA or make changes on certain skills.

It's not just in HA btw...people are lame enough to run that in GVG.

I dont know what to say..but anet won't listen to us anyways so gg..so as the other thread about ritspikes. Lets see how ppl do this weekend for the special gvg reward, ritspikes on ob i fear..

Despozblehero · Jul 27, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

^ if given the choice between heroway and not playing, I choose not playing, so does my entire guild, but then again we dont like to spend too many hours doing mindless, skilless things... or chewing wood... or playing vs mindless skilless things...

bitchbar player · Jul 27, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

It seems like everybody is saying: find a counter.

No, i just don't want to fight AI in pvp. I wouldn't mind playing against that build if it was run by 8 real people. I would even give them a gg when they win. I am just so bored fighting in AI

just my 2 cents

God Apprentice · Jul 28, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Ok quit with the "put in counters".

Hexes- Veil, Divert, any hex removal skill
Conditions-RC, any condition removal skill

Many balanced builds employ these skills already.

This isn't about putting counters in builds because people already have counters. The issue is Heroes in a player versus player enviroment.

moko · Jul 28, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

off topic removed, served it's purpose now -- no more XoO mentioning please.

Quote:

^ if given the choice between heroway and not playing, I choose not playing,

QFT.

and everyone that is starting with "bring a counter" now..stop posting. seriously, just go away.

gasmaskman · Jul 29, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despozblehero

Heroway is for scrubs... If you run it youre a scrub... If you split hairs about defending it or saying its not imbalanced, yup you guessed it, youre a scrub... Its a mindless, skilless, Build. If i could use any hero with any (decent) setup then ok youd have a point, all youd see is a bunch of zergway Goren's and Koss's with General Morgan im sure... but heros fail... sure they can be beaten but i dont want to fight heros id go play that epic fail HB for that...

Using heroway isn't being a scrub. Losing to heroway because you don't want to run it? That's the definition of a scrub. I don't care if you don't run heroway (I wouldn't, it's dumb, and I don't want to contribute to the problem, and I'm not defending it), don't complain about it being "scrubbish" if you lose because you're NOT playing it.